[OCCAID] Proposal for EINTAP

[Miles Nordin]

>>>>> "n" == Neil  <ndf at towardex.com> writes:
>>>>> "j" == James  <james at towardex.com> writes:

     n> oh well, NANOG friends used to say "its just IRC" ;-)

Yeah, and you're mending bridges, not posing or dropping names or
anything.

Anyway, you're right, irc is just irc.  But I think process, attitude,
and having clear goals and a positive culture are important things,
more important than ``just irc,'' and very tricky to get right.

Just look at Verio, for example.  <shudder>

     n> or was it that TCAM is for layer 2 mac addresses? last i
     n> recall there was difference between binary CAM and ternary CAM

In the excerpt that I quoted, one guy made this mistake, and another
corrected it.  But of course irc people are all dumb children---no
need to read the entire log.  Just look for one mistake and say ``oh
how stupid'' and then make fun of them.

Anyway, one of the points I meant with the irc log was that the
so-called children on irc do actually learn from and correct each
other.  That's why I left the CAM vs. TCAM discussion in there.

Very frustrating, Neil.

     j> All we see here are two side of political arguments and
     j> nothing changed as far as network is concerned.

Yeah, and nothing will change, because our input doesn't mean jack.
Maybe you should just stop posting EINTAP policy here.  Just implement
it and tell us.  Clearly I'm not qualified to have an opinion---I'm
just a member of a vocal minority who see all the name-calling and
become afraid their tunnels will be delayed if they speak up.


I really appreciate what you guys are doing, James.  It has been
incredibly valuable to me on several levels.  I can't be more serious
about that.  I was astonished to discover you guys even existed.  And
I also appreciate, as we discussed before, that it's hard to sustain a
project like this, and that some of my idealistic positions may just
make it harder.

But I am really steamed right now.

At this point, don't bother.  Like I said, I'll live with the policy,
and I know you have better things to do than play diplomat.  Even if
fighting tooth and nail and badgering you guys on every point I
convinced you to remove all mention of DNSspam, it wouldn't make much
difference to what I feel right now, so I'll live with it.

If my optimism and trust are going to be restored, it's going to be
through being a productive member of this community for a while longer
and seeing the next issue dealt with a little less rampant
condescention, cluelessness, and asshattery.  I think you guys are
doing great work, and I hope you're able to sustain a positive
attitude as you deal with inevitable excessively-annoying behavior.

EINTAP sounds on-the-whole like a good idea.  Like, I'm not saying to
myself, ``thank god i got my tunnel before they moved over to that
EINTAP'' or anything like that.  I wouldn't mind moving over to that
setup when you shut down ewr2 if that ends up being easier for you,
assuming I'm still around at that point.  Anyway, if it goes well I
think it could be very positive.